SRRT (Social Responsibilities Round Table)

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The Social Responsibilities Round Table works to make ALA more democratic and to establish progressive priorities not only for the Association, but also for the entire profession. Concern for human and economic rights was an important element in the founding of SRRT and remains an urgent concern today. SRRT believes that libraries and librarians must recognize and help solve social problems and inequities in order to carry out their mandate to work for the common good and bolster democracy.

Learn more about SRRT on the ALA website.

Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

  • 1.  Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 10:01 AM
      |   view attached

    As mentioned at the Action Council meeting on September 24, our ALA staff liaison, Hillary Pearson, has been asked to perform a program assessment for all SRRT initiatives, as reflected in the attached report, which was also included in the 9/24 meeting packet.

    Olivia and I met with Hillary to review the document and provided our feedback; now we are inviting feedback from other members, whose input will be weighed just as integrally and equitably as the input Olivia and I have already provided.

    The purpose of this exercise is explained in the report; the purpose of soliciting feedback from SRRT membership is so that Hillary can most accurately and comprehensively reflect member input as this assessment routes through the next channels within ALA.

    If you would like to provide feedback on this draft assessment, please post a reply to this thread by 12 pm CT on September 29. If you are more comfortable conveying your input off the message board, you are welcome to email Olivia and/or myself directly at our personal email addresses, as follows:

    Rachel: rosekindness@gmail.com

    Olivia: orhysb@gmail.com

    It is worth noting that one of the comments repeatedly heard from attendees at our SRRT listening session last February was that the tenor and tone of SRRT Connect was neither welcoming or inviting of open discussion and all too often devolved into targeting, bullying, and recursive "conversations." Which is why we fully understand why/if SRRT members would prefer to email their feedback privately, as reflected in Melinda's comment this morning.

    All feedback, whether posted publicly via Connect or sent privately, will be forwarded to Hillary. We look forward to hearing from and incorporating your feedback into the assessment.

    Thanks, Rachel & Olivia



    ------------------------------
    Rachel Rosekind
    Educator, Editor, Writer, Activist, Library Commissioner
    Write You Are / Contra Costa Library Commission
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)



  • 2.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 10:15 AM
    Hm. I read the report, and I have to question the appropriateness of this kind of staff interference in a member group's activities. Yes, there may be legal limitations on a member group, as far as committing the association to positions or expenditures, but beyond that, it's a member group and has a right to do whatever it wants.

    --
    Rory Litwin






  • 3.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 04:53 PM
    I'm not sure 'questioning the appropriateness' is the right way to look at it, Rory. We're primarily talking about effectiveness, not appropriateness. In libraries, when we talk about and try to measure the 'effectiveness' of our work, we're usually not trying to determine if the need the work is meant to address is important; instead we're trying to determine if we're doing a good job of addressing that need. Even in the best funded libraries, resources aren't unlimited, and spending time and money on ineffective programs ultimately harms the communities we serve. This assessment is trying to decide if a program's mission is in line with our organizational priorities and if it is fulfilling that mission well. My reading is that most of the programs that are recommended for re-evaluation are falling short on the second point, not the first. And I don't think the points it makes are all that unreasonable. Many of them also don't seem all that hard to correct if that is what we as a round table want to do. 

    ALA has become so large,sprawling and difficult to navigate that it's in genuine and imminent danger of crumbling under its own weight. And many of the issues pointed out in the document are ones that have also been reflected in member feedback we have been receiving - for example, that it's not always clear to members how to join or participate in some task forces, or how those task forces make decisions. We do have certain expectations for task forces. They are laid out in the rules that have been voted on by action council and adopted by a vote of the membership. If some task forces aren't abiding by them we should be looking for solutions to that, even without 'big ALA' pointing it out to us. This isn't a judgement on the importance of the ideas those programs are founded on: it's a practical evaluation of how well they are functioning. 

    I think the points about the travel grants are a really good example of a way that ALA could get units working together better. If we can administer those centrally, with the awards still going to member groups they are intended for but without the massive duplication of effort we have now throughout the association, that can only be good, right? 

    And regarding the Herb Biblo award; ALA has an entire set of policies surrounding awards. It is not and has never been as simple as 'we raised x amount of money and so this award must continue as-is indefinitely with no review of its effectiveness or sustainability.' One of ALA's policies for endowed awards is that they run for a three year trial and then be reevaluated to ensure long-term sustainability. That doesn't seem to have happened, so if there are questions about its fiscal sustainability that should be addressed, and recommending a one year pause to do that work is completely reasonable. Also, as I recall the committee had to directly ask for a nomination last year because they had gotten none up until fairly late in their nomination cycle. If nominations are slow, the recommendation to consider changing the award cadence and review the outreach plan and award criteria isn't such an outrageous one.  

    All of this is work that we should have been doing ourselves all along. Now the entire association is trying to recalibrate to ensure that it's still here for library workers who need it long into the future. So now we no longer have the option of delaying. But we can still use this as an opportunity to improve, to make us more relevant to our members, to stem the flow of SRRT membership cancellations or maybe even reverse it. 

    So everyone, please, really look at this document. Look at the issues that are pointed out. Don't reject them out of hand - think about them, honestly and with an open mind, and think about how they might be addressed. Don't just tell us that this or that program you love is in the wrong category: help us find ways to get it into the right one. We need ideas, not outrage. 





  • 4.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 06:34 PM
    There are many points i will respond to here that are misleading and inaccurate - and i will.  Like you I am vitally concerned about the future of ALA and it's sustainability. But  one key urgent point in terms of ALA's s current major fundraising effort and the endowed Biblo award can be detrimental to ALA current major fundraising effort. You are stating misinformation. 

     As I understand it, SRRT  members went through some efforts recently to raise $50,000 for the Biblo award ( as required by the Endowment). Name awards and named scholarships are a wonderful way to raise money for ALA- not only from members, but from divisions and round tables. 

    As a matter of fact, I am revising my own legacy plans for leaving ALA  endowment funds   I have also  ( sadly) just deal with the dissolution  of the Curley and Futas awards for lack of that fund threshold) so I'm quite familiar with the procedures. 

    The ALA Endowment has ruled is that it takes $50000 to establish an award  - there is no " three year trial " from the awards committee once there is an endowed award.  That would be extremely contradictory to the $50,000 endowment role that there has to be $5000 and enough for  at LEAST five years. The rules must be read in context. 

    Having  served on many ALA wide Award committees (Lippincott, Futas, Equality, Lemony Snickett)  I can confirm that it is very hard to get nominations for awards in ALA - even for major awards like the Lippincott. That is an issue that should be dealt with -
    these awards should be viewed as great honors. 

    Why would anyone in their right mind give the endowment $50,000
    for  a three year trial run? 

    We have lost many members and something like 11 state libraries . Here in Florida many librarians are not even allowed to participate in the Florida library association or attend ALA. That's a problem to solve - financially and for the very future of  libraries. 

    Patricia Glass Schuman
    Past-President
    Past- Treasurer
    Past endowment Trustee
    ALA Legacy Society Member
    Honorary Member
    Past SRRT Coordinator
    Lippincot Awarda Recipient
      Equality Award Recepient





  • 5.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 06:53 PM
    Patricia;  

    I'm basing this on the awards manual. I did not suggest that new endowed awards automatically last only three years or that they should expect to be discontinued promptly after that initial trial, but it is true that they are expected to be evaluated every three years, and that new awards should undergo an assessment after a trial period to ensure sustainability. That's ALA policy. 

    Respectfully, I think you go too far by claiming that there are 'many points' in my post that are 'misleading and inaccurate,' especially given that the only example you seem to have offered is a quibble over one point in the awards policy.  I think there's no question that the substance of my post is accurate and I respectfully request that you either withdraw your accusation or do a great deal more to back it up. 





  • 6.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 07:07 PM

    Tara,

    Your reply to Patricia illustrates a larger problem we've been facing with SRRT's current leadership. To dismiss her points as "misleading and inaccurate" reduces what she offered - drawn from decades of direct service as ALA President, Treasurer, Endowment Trustee, and SRRT leader - to a quibble, when in fact she was raising a substantive concern about how awards policy, endowment requirements, and fundraising intersect. Patricia is right to insist that endowed awards, having met the $50,000 threshold, are not subject to a "trial period" in the way you suggested. To gloss over that distinction may sound minor, but it directly affects how members understand their contributions and whether they can trust that their fundraising will have lasting impact.

    This is not simply a matter of wording. It is about how SRRT leadership engages with members, especially those who carry the memory of how SRRT has historically fought to keep ALA accountable to its values. The pattern has become one of quick deference to staff documents and policy framings, coupled with a readiness to dismiss or minimize critical input from members themselves. That is not the democratic, member-driven SRRT that was created as ALA's conscience.

    By characterizing Patricia's post as "misleading and inaccurate" without acknowledging her deep institutional knowledge, you reinforce the impression that critique and dissent - especially when it challenges staff-driven processes - are treated as obstacles rather than contributions. This undermines both the credibility of SRRT's leadership and the confidence of members who expect their experience and judgment to be valued.

    The issue here goes beyond one award. It speaks to how SRRT positions itself in the current climate of ALA de-democratization, where staff and the Executive Board increasingly dominate, and round tables are relegated to the margins. If SRRT leadership cannot recognize and defend the authority of its own members - especially founding figures like Patricia - then SRRT risks complicitly erasing the very traditions of independence and accountability that gave it meaning.

    We need leadership that treats members as the primary authority, not staff, and that welcomes critical knowledge rather than labeling it "inaccurate." Anything less represents a retreat from SRRT's historic role and weakens its ability to stand for intellectual freedom, social responsibility, and democracy in librarianship.

    Mark R.




    ------------------------------
    Mark Rosenzweig
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 07:14 PM
    Mark; 

    I have to admit I only read as far as your first sentence. I did not "dismiss her points as "misleading and inaccurate;" rather, that is what she did to me. I don't see a point in reading any further, as it's clear you didn't give me that courtesy before replying to me. 





  • 8.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 07:52 PM
    My last message is copied directly from the ALA Awards Manual. 
    Sent from my iPad





  • 9.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 07:12 PM

    That is a  misreading of the  Awards Manual, ALA and Endowment policy, particularly with respect to unit endowment's. In any case the Biblo award has been given FOUR times.

    Respectfully, I plan to make my further points to the 
    Executive Board and will copy SRRT once the Action Council resolution is transmitted. 

     Pat Schuman
    .
    Sent from my iPad





  • 10.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 07:17 PM
    Yes, I'm aware that the award has been given four times. This means that if the required assessment has not yet been completed, it is now overdue. That's why I thought the suggestion for a one year pause to ensure sustainability was reasonable. I can see that you don't agree, but I think you could probably say that without calling my post 'misleading' and 'misinformation.' 





  • 11.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 07:48 PM

    ALA Awards Committee


    ...It is important to note that award juries and committees from any unit or division operate autonomously and are not considered subcommittees of the Awards Committee....


    Life Expectancy of the Award

    Considerations:

    1. It is advisable to establish a date for the Awards Committee or relevant unit to assess and decide on the continuation of an award at the time the award is created. Typically, a trial period of three years is standard.
    2. Endowments aimed at supporting the ongoing recognition of awards that have been established for five years or more should be promoted.

    Sent from my iPad





  • 12.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 10:14 PM
    I want to thank Pat Schuman again for coming back to the SRRT Action Council meeting at a time of need and crisis. I very appreciate all she has done and what she is doing now to push ALA in a progressive direction. I want to specifically thank her for her words about the Biblo Award endowment. Some of you know that Howard Besser and I made this award happen including donating most of the money. I am not saying that here for any other reason than I feel personally offended that anyone is challenging the value of this award. I think the award winners are examples of just how important progressive activists have been for SRRT and ALA. I was very happy that Sandy Berman won the last award, especially since I don’t think he is doing very well lately and this might have given him some satisfaction at this point in his life. I think it was also good in informing young librarians about just how much difference one person can make.

    I have been in touch with Howard who is currently in Brazil, and I will keep him informed of further developments.

    Al




  • 13.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 09:50 PM
    I think Rory has articulated very well how I think about what is going on. I think this assessment document is an arrow aimed at SRRT's heart.
    Al







  • 14.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 08:03 PM

     

     

     

    Dear Patricia,

     

    I want to thank you again for speaking up so forcefully and clearly about the Biblo Award, the Endowment rules, and the broader implications for ALA fundraising. Your institutional knowledge and long experience in these areas are invaluable, and it is exactly this kind of perspective that SRRT and ALA most need right now.

     

    There's been some noise around my earlier misquote of Tara's response, which I've already acknowledged and corrected. But I want to stress that this is a side issue, and it doesn't diminish the importance of what you raised. The substance of your intervention - that endowed awards cannot be treated as "trial runs," and that representing them as such misinforms members and donors - stands unshaken.

     

    More than that, the way your points were brushed aside speaks to the deeper problem we face in SRRT leadership today: a readiness to defer to staff framings and a tendency to minimize critical input, even from those who have shaped the very traditions of member-driven responsibility SRRT was founded upon.

     

    Please know that your contribution has not gone unheard. Many of us value your voice not only for the accuracy of what you say but for the role you continue to play in holding SRRT and ALA accountable to their stated values. Your intervention strengthens the case for a member-centered SRRT that does not let staff-driven procedure override democratic participation.

     

    With deep respect,

    Mark R.

     






  • 15.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 25, 2025 09:59 PM

    So true. Thanks,Rory

     






  • 16.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 27, 2025 03:45 PM
    Hi Rachel and Olivia,

    I have a question about the feedback on the assessment. Do you know if we're expected to address all the concerns about our task force (HHPTF) and propose a way forward right now? Or are the comments more about the process? 
    Thanks for any clarfication you can provide!
    Julie


    Julie Ann Winkelstein, PhD, MLIS
    Librarian, writer, teacher, activist
    Author: Libraries and Homelessness: An Action Guide (https://products.abc-clio.com/abc-cliocorporate/product.aspx?pc=A5708P)
    jwinkels@utk.edu

    My pronouns are she, her, hers

    Google is not a verb!







  • 17.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 28, 2025 06:57 PM

    Hi Julie,

    Thanks for your question. I don't think there is any "correct" way of going about providing your feedback, since this is an entirely new process that I anticipate will receive varying responses across the different entities that are being assessed and surveyed. I think feedback on the process in tandem with the specific initiative you wish to provide more clarification or narrative around would both be helpful. 

    Hope that helps - Warmly, 



    ------------------------------
    Rachel Rosekind
    Educator, Editor, Writer, Activist, Library Commissioner
    Write You Are / Contra Costa Library Commission
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 28, 2025 10:04 PM
    Hi Rachel,

    Thanks for your response - I appreciate it.
    Julie


    Julie Ann Winkelstein, PhD, MLIS
    Librarian, writer, teacher, activist
    Author: Libraries and Homelessness: An Action Guide (https://products.abc-clio.com/abc-cliocorporate/product.aspx?pc=A5708P)
    jwinkels@utk.edu

    My pronouns are she, her, hers

    Google is not a verb!







  • 19.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 29, 2025 02:23 PM
    Edited by Patricia Schuman Sep 29, 2025 02:27 PM

    I suggest that there's some misunderstanding here .  This is not supposed to be a staff liaison final document  

    I think we're under a misapprehension when we call this "" Hillary's document" and assume that we cannot make changes to it - only comments. SRRT should commend the search staff liaison for helping our work along, but not accept it as the final document . That is not what the executive board asked for or expected

    here is the executive board action, address to Ala units, not ALA staff  : 

    The ALA Executive Board approved the following motions on May 15, 2025: 

    • Motion #1: Direct ALA units, including Divisions and Round Tables, to conduct an audit of their member committees, interest groups, and other member groups with recommendations to continue or sunset to aid in future budgeting decisions to the Executive Director of the Association by September 30, 2025; and 
    • Motion #2: Direct ALA units, including Divisions and Round Tables, to conduct an audit of their awards, scholarships, and grants with recommendations to continue or sunset to aid in future budgeting decisions to the Executive Director of the Association by September 30, 2025. 

    Recommendation should be coming from members and Action  Council and we should be free to make changes to the document presented in accordance with the executive board instructions. The Final audit should  be an SRRT member document not a staff live on document

    Pat Schuman



    ------------------------------
    Patricia Glass Schuman
    ALA Past Treasurer
    ALA Past President
    ALA Honorary Member
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 29, 2025 02:35 PM
    Thank you Pat. Therefore I suggest that we start over and do this right.
    Al




  • 21.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 29, 2025 04:45 PM

    I agree 100% with Pat S.:"Recommendation should be coming from members and Action  Council and we should be free to make changes to the document presented in accordance with the executive board instructions. The Final audit should  be an SRRT member document not a staff live on document."

    Please heed this message from one of the founders of SRRT and an ex-ALA President!

    Mark R



    ------------------------------
    Mark Rosenzweig
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Sep 29, 2025 10:15 PM

    Subject: Urgent: Clarification Needed on Assessment Document

    Dear Rachel & Olivia,

    I'm following up on the assessment document process. It seems there may be a significant misunderstanding about the purpose of the draft we have. This is not meant to be a staff liaison "final" document. While we should acknowledge and appreciate the liaison's assistance, the Executive Board clearly instructed ALA units-including SRRT-to conduct audits and produce member-driven recommendations. The final document should reflect SRRT members' decisions, not a staff-authored draft.

    Could you clarify:

    1. What are the next steps for finalizing this as a true SRRT member document?

    2. Why is the current approach apparently treating the liaison draft as final, when even  the Executive Board's motions explicitly call for member-led recommendations?

    Frommy point of view, it's important that we move forward in a way that preserves SRRT's role as a member-driven body.

    Thank you,

    Mark Rosenzweig

    IRTF Co-coordinator



    ------------------------------
    Mark Rosenzweig
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Oct 01, 2025 07:43 AM

    Thank you for the robust member feedback provided, both posted to Connect and provided via email to me and Olivia. We have submitted everything to Hillary, who has made many modifications to the report based on feedback and her own subsequent research. I expect she will also share what the next steps are related to transmission and outcomes. It's worth noting that a preponderance of the feedback related to the process undertaken to conduct the assessment, including my own, which I relayed as part of the aggregated feedback and will share here as well, as follows:

    My feedback relates to the purpose and process of this assessment rather than the scoring of individual initiatives.

     

    I recognize that the American Library Association (ALA) has never been a grassroots organization and has always been a large cross-sector professional association with many different stakeholders primarily devoted to advocacy for the LIS field, its workforce, and its centrality to the core values of American democracy, like intellectual freedom, privacy, and civic belonging. I appreciate the resources and opportunities the ALA provides to develop some of the core competencies and critical lenses necessary to excel as a professional and advocate in this field. 

     

    Having said that, my own involvement in ALA has waxed and waned over the course of the past 25 years I've been engaged in some way with the LIS profession, for reasons related to its often insular, overly professionalized, and bureaucratic/technocratic tendencies. These range from the persistently prohibitive cost of membership and conference attendance fees to the historical lack of support for African Americans and suppression of the organization's "silence and indifference" in the face of their oppression and exclusion to the current corporate/consultant-refresh that seems to have overtaken the organization and threatens its credibility as an inclusive and politically potent force for social good and justice. 

     

    The program assessment is a reflection of the latter trend, one that is not unique to ALA but rather has dominated the educational and knowledge industries for the past several decades, on a parallel track with escalating social polarization, economic inequality, and political authoritarianism. I believe that these are intertwined. While the Social Responsibilities Round Table has had an unfortunate tendency in recent years to devolve into fractiousness and in-fighting, I remain engaged because I believe that librarianship is inherently linked to the pursuit of social justice - which is to say, egalitarian institutions, equitable resource allocation, and an engaged citizenry ("citizen" not meant to be defined by nativity or nationality). Through its programming, resolutions, and various other initiatives and resources, SRRT has persisted as a beacon within ALA, and I am still committed to moving it forward in this capacity. Becuase of this, it is critical that the internal practices of SRRT's umbrella organization, the ALA, should model behaviors that foster collective discussion and action rather than hierarchical decision-making.

     

    I believe that the program assessment process should therefore be a collaborative effort with each entity being assessed and that the feedback provided should be a springboard to redirect the assessment back to a member-oriented process that engages all stakeholders as equal members of a democratic body. While that may seem like it will produce more fractiousness and/or the classification of all initiatives as "preserve and invest" (and it may be so on both counts), that would at least create a process that tracks with the ideals we espouse as professionals and advocates and activists within this field and the broader society we are immersed in. I do not know what this revised path may look like, but I would urge ALA staff to consider, particularly in light of feedback received by SRRT members, how we might re-form this process to achieve a more transparent, legible, and inclusive pathway that aligns with our shared values and goals.

     

    Thanks for your consideration,

    Rachel Rosekind, PhD, MLIS

    Root and Bloom



    ------------------------------
    Rachel Rosekind
    Educator, Editor, Writer, Activist, Library Commissioner
    Write You Are / Contra Costa Library Commission
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Oct 01, 2025 11:57 AM
    I am very pleased that Rachel has raised her voice about the flawed assessment process. I look forward to next steps, and I hope the previous document has been thrown into the waste bin.

    Al


    Al Kagan
    SRRT International Responsibilities Task Force
    SRRT Councilor, 1999-2009, 2011-2015

    African Studies Bibliographer and Professor of Library Administration Emeritus
    University of Illinois Urbana/Champaign















  • 25.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Oct 01, 2025 01:04 PM
    Bravo Rachel! 

    Pat Schuman





  • 26.  RE: Feedback Requested on SRRT Program Assessment - Due by September 29 @ 12 pm CT

    Posted Oct 01, 2025 01:28 PM

    Thank you, Rachel, for your thoughtful critical response to the assessment process itself. 
    Mark R



    ------------------------------
    Mark Rosenzweig
    ------------------------------